TJ Long Arm Kits

[RJ]

I keep hearing people on CTJeep talk about the Clayton long arm kit, but other than Bob's Rubicon I've never really seen it in action. I know Steve on here has the Full Traction kit and I know several guys who run the RELA kits, but don't really know what the difference is between them all. I'm pretty much looking for a complete kit with 4.5" springs to run 35's. Can anyone fill me in?

 

[RJ]

I don't want to do the Teraflex LCG kit because it's too much welding and cutting. That and it costs waaay too much.

 

[sean_cj7]

Well if you don't want to weld or cut then don't go the Clayton route, though since he is local having him install it is easy, just not sure of the cost. I saw Steve's FT kit this weekend and it was nice. However I've seen Clayton's stuff and his kit is very nice, works well and is strong. From what I've seen they are compareable to each other. I just like how Clayton's it is built plus he is local. Just my opinions, and I don't know much since I still believe in leaf springs.

 

[RJ]

I'm not saying that I don't want to weld or cut, but the Teraflex LCG is really custom and from what I hear only a certified person can install it.

 

[KLank]

RJ,

I have the Clayton kit and love it. Like Sean said you can have Clayton install it if you want, because it definatly isn't a bolt on kit. You say my rig at the run at Beacon we did this past winter. If you are looking for a more do it yourself type kit then the Full Traction kit Steve has is a nice kit.

Ken

 

[JustinRuby03]

I have the FT also and I outflexed and outperformed RE and RK in moab. I hear great things about Clayton too.

Justin

 

[Rev]

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*I vow to never publically discuss a LA until I own one myself*

 

[jon]

Rev...

I have no idea about clayton's cost to install his kit. Personally I would prefer a real upper link instead of a radius arm, but a radius setup can be very strong. BUT your comment on square tubing is completely off base.

square tubing is much better than round tubing for this application. and a hell of a lot stronger in the areas that are important to its application.

Sqaure tubing has a much high bending stiffness than round, hence why a car frame is box tube. Round has a better torsional stiffness hence why driveshafts are round. I don't know where you got that information, but the person soes not have a clue what they are talking about.

 

[Rev]

Thank you Steve, you beat me to posting that exact thread! :lol:

 

[KLank]

Agreed. RJ is looking for advise. The people that have the Clayton and Full Traction both say both kits work well. There are benifits to both kits. I'm sure RJ will sift through the posts and make a well informed choice.

Ken

 

[RJ]

Thanks everyone for your posts. I'm sure everyone is happy with the kit that they bought. More than anything I was hoping to hear about the Clayton kit since I had never heard of them before I moved to CT.

Looking at the Clayton site, I saw his prices for installation on some of his other kits and they weren't $2000 as one poster put it. Unless I get the Full Traction kit, I'll more than likely have a shop put the lift on since I have no cutting or welding experience.

I'm still looking at all three kits (RELA, Clayton and FT), but I'm looking to purchase towards the end of the year.

 

[Rev]

I had a rough day dealing with "some other people" concerning this subject. I'm ticked at a person/persons so suspensions are taking the brunt of my anger. Since I can't slap around Detour (no, he didn't tick me off, just thought he'd make a good scapgoat :smt062 :lol: ) cause I don't want to knock out his jaw drain :lol: , my posts earlier today were a little misdirected. I'm not a basher, y'all who know me know that. I'm just getting disturbed to the point that those who founded NEJeep got to many months ago. ](*,) I've regained my sanity and apologize to anyone or any engineering product that got scratched in my way.

:twisted: My the god of Jeep grant me forgiveness and the sanity to re-become a good representative of our outstanding group! :twisted:

 

[Rev]

In a thought provoking manner -

this is what I looked at when thinking about LA-

(1) how easy is it to repair WHEN it gets broken :lol:
(2) what can the kit possibly IMPROVE beyond the normal expectations one would expect from a Long Arm
(3) quality of parts/welding/etc - ie. will one hold up better than others?
(4) opinions of those who ACTUALLY OWN the setup and have wheeled it
(5) ignore posts of people who need a good slaping now and then
(6) how hard to you intend to wheel it
(7) how much on-road handling you are willing to sacrifice for off-road handling
(eight) your budget

Do LOTS of research. I made my opinion based on these things (with the exception of #8 because I'm too poor for one right now :lol: ) Go and see rigs with them installed personally. That will often make/break decisions, as it did with mine. Either way, you will be granted many gifts more than a short arm can ever offer you! 8)

 

[Rev]

I think what Rev meant was you have to piece together all of the other components, coils, shocks, trac-bar, brakelines, etc. I can see labor plus the additional parts coming in around there. If you want to do a belly-up skid plate your looking at an additional $300-$500 from the various companies out there.

Yes, I was referring to buying the various parts in addition to the long arms themselves, to make the kits "comparable", since when you buy FT, you get one HUGE package and when you get Clayton's, you get only the long arms setup, not coils, skid, etc. Take that in affect when pricing the difference. If you already have belly up skid, yadda yadda, you may NOT want to buy a FT and purchase parts you don't need.

 

[RJ]

What all comes with the FT kit? I was under the impression that it was just the long arms and coils?

Steve, could you do me a favor and post a pic of your TJ?

 

[RJ]

Steve, do you mind telling me what you paid for your kit and where you bought it?

 

[jon]

That's not the whole picture. The shape of square tube is stronger than round tube, in some types of loading, but you still need to look at the material properties. Most available square tube is A500 grade, most of the round tube used (or should be) on suspension links is 1020 DOM. 1020 DOM is about 50% stronger that A500.

As an example 1 1/2 x .120 round 1020 DOM compared to 1 1/2 x .120 A500 square tube. If you want to look at bending strength, the sq tube will be about 10% stronger, but the round tube will be 20% lighter. If you want to go thicker wall or bigger OD on the round to equal the weight of the square, then the round will be stronger. Now if you want to use 4130 chromoly, then the round will be 15% stronger than square. To compare the strength to weight ratio, round DOM beats square A500, and round 4130 kills square A500.

Reference:
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=518105&perpage=20&highlight=clayton&pagenumber=3

Hey, I was not meaning to bash either, And AS I said, they are both great kits. BUT the information above is wrong. It is like comparing a steel box to a wooden one. if he wants to compare square to round he should compare A500 to A500 (standard for production of the tube set by the ASTM) DOM and A500 are very different methods of production as 4130 cro-moly steel is very different from 1020 mild steel. DOM is also 2x the price of structural grade steel.

Iif you are comparing the same material and construction methods square has a higher bending stiffness. The bending stiffness is directly proportional to the Moment of Inertia (second moment of area) square tube has a much moment of inertia than round (and an i beam is even higher than square). You then also have to take into effect the wall thickness and weight. A piece of round of equal strenght may be lighter, but its dent resistance will be MUCH less, so then you have to thicken the wass, as a dent creates a stress concentration which will destroy the bending stiffness.

I'll try and upload the spreadsheet that I used to determine what material to use on the baja car, so you can see the differences. what geometry you use all depends on the application, but you cannot throw a blanket statement that round is stronger than square. Looking at any structural design should show this.

 

[jon]

In a thought provoking manner -

this is what I looked at when thinking about LA-

(1) how easy is it to repair WHEN it gets broken :lol:
(2) what can the kit possibly IMPROVE beyond the normal expectations one would expect from a Long Arm
(3) quality of parts/welding/etc - ie. will one hold up better than others?
(4) opinions of those who ACTUALLY OWN the setup and have wheeled it
(5) ignore posts of people who need a good slaping now and then
(6) how hard to you intend to wheel it
(7) how much on-road handling you are willing to sacrifice for off-road handling
(eight) your budget

Do LOTS of research. I made my opinion based on these things (with the exception of #8 because I'm too poor for one right now :lol: ) Go and see rigs with them installed personally. That will often make/break decisions, as it did with mine. Either way, you will be granted many gifts more than a short arm can ever offer you! 8)

this is great advice.

Especially number 4. becareful when asking this sort of question becasue often you will get parroting. especially on places like JU.

 

[Josh]

I like Clayton on all counts except for the mount placement. I really like the FT skid with intergrated mounts in terms of sliding over stuff.

That said, I like FT on all counts except for the non-adjustable tri-link in the rear.

 

[jon]

:smt019

steve, that wasn't meant as a bash...PBB is worse